If you're interested, there is a MapRoulette challenge for cleaning up partial overlaps between fairways and greens.

https://maproulette.org/browse/challenges/50926

Hi Ronca, thanks for getting back to me. I'm glad to hear that you are fixing things, but it is unclear that you understood my message and are now familiar with relations and multipolygons and how to edit them. Can you please address those concerns? Thanks.

Oh, and if you're asking why that particular segment doesn't have any tags, that is because it is part of a larger relation (relation/8143217) that carries all the tags for the members of the relation. Is that what you were asking?

Hello Charles,

There is a limit to the number of nodes a segment can contain. The limit is 2000 nodes. If someone new comes along and wants to refine the way and add a few nodes, it is confusing on how they proceed and split the node up and make sure the relation exists and is ordered correctly.

There are QA tools that flag any segments that are over 1800 nodes. I work to make sure those segments are under that trigger limit so that newer users don't have to worry about bumping up against the 2000 node limit.

Does that help?

RE: way/1378753422, et al

Hello Meatsia,

The lines that define Fairways and Greens should never intersect or partially overlap each other and we noticed that they are overlapping in one or more of the fairway/green pairs in this changeset. If there is no obvious fringe around the green, the fairway should butt up against the green and every node between them should be *shared*. If there is a fringe around the green that is similar to the fairway, the fairway should extend around the green and the two objects should be merged together into a multipolygon (See osm.wiki/Relation:multipolygon for how to create them with your map editor). Please read the wiki for instructions and examples of how to better map golf courses: leisure=golf_course#Common_mapping_pitfalls. If you have any questions, please reply here and I'll gladly help clarify things. Thanks!

As I mentioned before in a previous changeset comment, you are breaking multipolygon relations. For example: relation/18974781. Please see the previous discussion (changeset/164217730) and address those issues before making any more golf course edits involving multipolygons. Thanks.

Hello Lulzy,

RE: way/1378456541

Please make sure you share *all* of the nodes at the boundary between the green and the fairway. If they overlap, they triggered Quality checks and someone has to go and fix them. So please be mindful of that. You might want to familiarize yourself with this wiki page: leisure=golf_course

Are you working with a team on these edits? I see a few of you all editing the same area so I'm guessing this is a group thing. Can you let others know of this issue as well? Thanks!

I realize this might have been the creator, and not you, but while you're editing the fairway, if you could look for this problem, it would be very helpful. Thanks.

RE: way/905945146

Please make sure you share all nodes between the fairway and green. If you skip a node like you did in the above fairway, it will overlap with the green ever so slightly and set off the quality assurance checks. Thanks.

Hello Numac,

Please be aware that you are improperly deleting several relations that have been set up to describe how fairways and greens are represented on the map. You should be leaving those relations intact and modifying the members of the relations instead of deleting and recreating them or somehow breaking the relation. You can read more about multipolygons in the wiki: osm.wiki/Relation:multipolygon

Another wiki that you should read is the "keep the history" wiki: osm.wiki/Keep_the_history which talks about the benefits of maintaining history by not deleting elements, but modifying them instead where it makes sense.

Please familiarize yourself with those before editing any more multipolygons in your golf course work. If you have any questions, please let me know.
Thanks.

Hey there jmarchon, please let me know exactly what you think was broken about the relation. I'm going to put it back to the state I think is valid. If you could leave it that way and point out the problems, we can discuss it. Curious to see your reasoning. (Also, come join us for dinner Monday and we can talk about it in person. :)

Thanks for getting back to me, and I’m sorry there has been confusing messaging in the past on the issue. We are trying to clear things up with documenting best practices on the wiki and spreading the word.

The problem originally stems from a very popular video that encourages people to *overlap* the fairway and green, which is very wrong. Tens of thousands of golf course holes have been drawn like that and there has been misleading messaging to stop doing that. But the correct thing is to butt them up together and carefully share the nodes at the boundary.

I’ve embarked on a massive cleanup project to fix all of these so people have good examples to follow and I’m also working on chasing down anyone that makes this particular mistake and getting the word out to prevent it from happening going forward.

Thanks for listening,
b-jazz

Please fully connect fairways and greens together (like way/1378169412) by sharing all the nodes that border between them. See the golf_course wiki for examples of what this would look like: leisure=golf_course#Common_mapping_pitfalls

Thanks. Please feel free to reach out if you need help.

RE: relation/18852672

Hi Compo. Welcome to mapping out golf courses, and mapping in general. I want to point out some problems in hopes that you can improve your mapping going forward.

First thing is that you have deleted parts of a multipolygon relation. You can read more about multipolygons on the wiki: osm.wiki/Relation:multipolygon. When you deleted the green, you broke the relation and left the fairway without it's inner boundary (the green).

That leads to the next problem of deleting things in order to recreate them from scratch. There is a core belief that history should be maintained instead of deleted. So it's best to modify that green instead of deleting it. See the wiki: osm.wiki/Keep_the_history

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Please be careful when you join two objects like way/746356398 and the fairway that you share all of the nodes at the boundary, or you get overlap and trigger Quality checks. Thanks.

Yup, I done f'd up. Apologies.

When you say "OSM doesn't play nice with nodes that close together", I'm guessing you are talking about the iD editor, or maybe another editor that "snaps" nodes together when you get close. You should be able to zoom in another zoom level or two which will separate the points enough to make snapping not be an issue.

Vintage Club looks great. That's textbook fairway mapping for greens that don't have an (obvious) fringe.

What makes you say that golf holes must have a total of three nodes? I've never heard that before. I pulled up a bunch of classic, real-world golf course maps and every one of the the par-3, straight shot, holes each had a straight, 2 node, line defining them. Is this a rule imposed by simulators?

For your amusement, check out this golf hole: way/975834938

At some point, I'd like to clean all of those up. Especially where people have erroneously added shared points to every tee, fairway, bunker, and green that they intersect with.

Hi there Aeuri,

I think your creation of multipolygon relations for where greens and fairways meet makes things more complex than they should be. It's best to draw a complete green and complete fairway and share nodes that are on the border of the two objects. iD and other editors should highlight the other object if you get the cursor close to another node. Give it a try and let me know if you have any issues. Thanks.

Fantastic. Thanks. If you run into the problem again, leave it alone and let me take a look at it and see if I can't help understand the problem so that I can come up with better instructions in the future. Thanks.

Hey malifica, when you have a green like way/1377611606, instead of drawing the fairway around the green and sharing a bunch of nodes (because the green is at the edge of the fairway), could you draw the fairway so that it borders the green (instead of surrounding it)? I hope that makes sense. Let me know if not.

I also notice a lot of golf=hole ways that you draw have a couple of points close to each other on the green. What's the purpose of this? Most times I see a single endpoint node in the green.

thanks.